THE CONVERSATION! (Feb.2004)

 

BASED ON A TRUE STORY...

          The following is an enactment of a conversation between two men in 21st century America.  Names have been changed to protect the guilty.  

THE PLAYERS...

          Curt is a main stream American evangelical Christian, active in his Church, "on fire" for the Lord, and educated in his faith by the mainstream Church in America today.  He goes to Sunday school classes, attends Church every Sunday, and is considered a good Christian man.  He has three children, all boys, and a beautiful wife who shares all of his spiritual convictions.  He is a very well to do man who runs his own business, spending approximately 60-70 hours each week at the office, and even spends 10-12 hours at home each week on his Computer and on the phone working out business details. He is a hard working man.

          Jacob is a Christian as well, who has experiences with the Lord ranging back as far as three decades.  He was once very active in his Church, and had a ministry to the youth, with a strong emphasis on personal evangelism.  He has however, within the last two years, returned from a long hiatus from Church attendance, and his fellow Christians look at him with skepticism and concern, assuming that his spiritual life is hanging in the balance of so many years away from the Church.  He has a job, and is happily married with one Child, also a Boy.  Jacob spends many hours each week reading the word and praying, and has never left his faith behind, in fact does not even really have an explanation as to why he stopped attending Church.  Recently, realizing how long he has been out, he returns to the Church to enjoy the fellowship he once enjoyed there.

THE SETUP

          Returning to church feels good to Jacob.  He misses the fellowship, and the warm feeling of security he receives from being a member.  He decides to join the Men's Bible study, which occurs each Wednesday evening, for additional fellowship with the same men he used to fellowship with back when he attended regularly.  Although the Bible study topic is the book of Romans, due to the recent attacks on American soil, the Bible study leader (who is Curt), feels led to discuss current events in order to teach what he believes to be a proper world view for the Men attending this study.  He gives a heartfelt speech about the need for justice for the thousands that were killed that day.  He talks about how the terrorists need to be eradicated from the earth, and that it is our Christian duty to support the President in his foreign policies, and that it is against God to be in opposition to the war in Iraq.  He talks about how America is a holy nation, and that God is with the US in its doings.  He ends the Bible study with a prayer rebuking those who oppose the war, those who oppose the President, and prays that God will continue to bless America as he always has.

          Jacob sits dumbfounded at the things he is seeing and hearing in this bible study.  He remembers 10 years earlier, attending bible studies where it was discussed that the world was an evil place, and that the kingdoms of the world were under the influence of the God of this world, which he believes the Bible states clearly, and always has.  During the course of the study Jacob looks around and realizes he is among a group of people that he used to know, but who have drastically changed.  He notices his old church friend John, who used to be a fairly poor man, he remembers how Happy a man John was and how full of love for God he used to be.  Now he looks and sees John in a nice suit with a beautiful Gold watch, an expensive hair weave, and he notices his Mercedes key sitting on the table in front of him.  John seems heavy and stressed now, he is roused by the words Curt speaks, and says hearty "Amen's" over the things that Curt prays.  Suddenly Jacob realizes he is not looking at the same situation he left a decade ago.  He feels sick to his stomach knowing that he can not sit by and not say something.  After the study is over, and the other men have left, he approaches Curt

Jacob:  Hello Curt, how are you.

Curt: Jacob!  Long time no see buddy, we have been praying for you.  I can see our prayers have been answered!

Jacob:  Thank you, I appreciate that Curt, but I feel a strong need to speak to you about some of the things that were said in this room tonight Brother.

Curt: Well sure, feel free Jacob, you know you can talk to me anytime.

Jacob:  I am not sure I understand what the basis is for some of the stuff you said about current world events.  In fact, I am not sure I understand the entire idea behind everything you said from the time you felt led to discuss world events, and the War in Iraq.

Curt: Well Jacob, part of what Men's Bible study is for is to teach the men in the church about the Lord, his will, and to give men a proper Christian world view.

Jacob:  Even if that view is the exact opposite of what our Lord said Curt?

Curt: What do you mean by that??  What did I say that was the opposite of what the Lord said?

Jacob:  Well for starters Curt, what makes you think the Lord would be pleased with his servants participating in, or supporting killing men?

Curt: Jacob, these men came into America and killed thousands of American citizens!  How could you NOT support finding those men, and bringing them to justice??

Jacob:  By killing them? Taking revenge?

Curt: Yes Jacob, we are at war!  What are you saying?

Jacob:  I have been watching the news and the current administration’s views, and what is going on in the world, I also notice that the Christian Church has placed its stamp of approval and its support behind them, and I don’t see how a Christian can condone, or support what basically amounts to a course of revenge Curt, especially in the name of Jesus. How does that line up with the words of Jesus?

Curt: What are you talking about??

Jacob:  I’m talking about Mathew 5: 43-45 Curt.  Which says; you have heard it said Love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say to you love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you and persecute you. That you may be children of your Father…  

Curt: I know what the verses say Jacob!

Jacob:  Then how do you justify the position that you stated in this Bible study tonight?

Curt: Jacob, all prominent Christian leaders agree that terrorists need to be eradicated from the earth!  Didn’t you hear the President?  We are fighting an “axis of evil”  this is a spiritual war.  We have to fight the good fight!

Jacob:  First of all I don’t see how every prominent leader saying this makes it more effectual than the Bible.  Secondly Curt, in the verses where Paul says to fight the good fight he is talking about faith in a man's life, and how he needs to spend his life striving to attain the High call of God in Christ, he wasn’t talking about war.  Your use of that term is so far out of context it isn’t even funny.

Curt: Listen Jacob, the church obviously had enough faith in me to put me in the position of teaching this study, I think I am in a better position to say what the Spirit is doing here than you are, no offense, but I have been a Christian for 25 years, I think I know what the Bible says.

Jacob:  If that’s the case Curt, then why are you teaching principals that betray the message of Jesus, the words of the Bible, and all that he told us to stand for!

Curt: Jacob, what are you talking about??  Where have you been in recent years??  You haven’t darkened the doors of this church in years!  How can you come back in here, and tell ME, a faithful church attendee for 25 years, and a teacher in the church what the Lord says??

Jacob:  Curt, do you honestly believe that you’re church attendance is the mark of validity on your teaching?  I know who you are at this Church, I also know you are a member of the Apostles and Prophets movement, and that you have been deemed a Prophet by that same movement.

Curt: Well it certainly is better than not being here for 10 years isn’t it?

Jacob:  Curt, I am not comparing myself to you on the point of church attendance, I am saying that the things you said in here tonight are contrary to scripture.  Your validity as a teacher has to be your knowledge of the Word of God, and your rightness in using his word.  Not your Church attendance, your standing in the Church, or your status as a Prophet in some in-vogue movement.

Curt: What exactly are you implying here Jacob?? 

Jacob:  I am saying that the Word does not say that we are to kill those who oppose us spiritually or politically.  That Jesus never ever said that we were to seek out revenge for being persecuted, or that we would strike first when we detect the possibility that someone MAY strike us.  In fact Curt, I don’t see where Jesus said we should rise up and kill at all, even in our own DEFENSE. How does that stack up with this “pre-emptive strike” philosophy now being preached by our “holy” government bud?

Curt: What???

Jacob: Which part of this are you asking what to?  Could you give me some scriptural background for what you were teaching the men in this study tonight?

Curt:  First of all, the bible says that the Government does not wield the sword in vain Jacob.

Jacob: Yes I know Curt, Romans 13: 1-4.  I think its pretty obvious there he is talking about the government’s power over it’s OWN citizens, since Paul is talking to Romans about how they should live and be law abiding citizens.  I believe in rendering respect to the leadership as far as the laws of the land, but that doesn’t mean they wield the sword rightly on WHOMEVER they choose to wield it.  He is talking about law and order there Curt, and I think you know that.  Also, you didn’t happen to notice the 6 or 8 verses just prior to that in the book of Romans did you?? 

Romans 12: 14-21  Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.  Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil.  Provide things honest in the sight of all men.  If it be possible, as much as lies within you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, says the Lord.   Therefore if your enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing you heap coals of fire on his head.  Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Remember those verses Curt?

Curt: You can quote all the verses of scripture you want here Jacob, but you haven’t been in the church for the better part of a decade, and there is no way you have the right view of these things.

Jacob: Are you listening to yourself Curt??  “You can quote all the scripture you want”  as if the Word doesn’t matter in this conversation??  Since when did the in-vogue beliefs in the church over rule the Bible in the hearts of Christians?  Since when was it ok to follow and support beliefs that are contrary to the Word??

Curt: There is nothing contrary to the Word in my beliefs Jacob!  This is what I don’t understand!  Where do you come off coming in here and teaching ME the word?  You are out there Jacob, you are LOST!  You have been out of the church for way too long, and it has ruined your spirit.

Jacob: At this particular moment in time Curt, I am enormously thankful that I have not been in the church for this long, if it has saved me from passing through the progression you have obviously passed through.

Curt:  What progression is that Jacob?  What are you talking about?

Jacob: I am talking about a progression that brought you from honoring the word of God to betraying it.  You stand here tonight defending, by way of ideologies and political thinking, beliefs that utterly and completely betray the words of Jesus, and you are now telling me that the Church has sanctioned you to do so?

Curt: Jacob, God loves America. This is the only Christian nation.  It is America ’s responsibility to shine the light of the gospel on the world, and to spread freedom and liberty to all men.

Jacob: At the point of the guns of the mighty American military?  No one in the world is going to be convicted of his sin by America rolling its tanks into their cities and saying “We are in control”  Do you actually stand there saying the Soldiers are preaching the gospel in Iraq today Curt??  What are you thinking man???  Do the people of the world deserve the “freedom and liberty” to have the type of government THEY choose to have in their land??  Apparently not according to the Christian Church, which now touts our government as a holy thing!

Curt: I never said they were preaching the gospel Jacob.

Jacob: But you did say they were on a godly mission right?  That they are doing the will of God in the world?  In Iraq?

Curt: We are not suppose to judge our leaders Jacob, we are supposed to pray for them, why are you being so judgmental??

Jacob: The Lord told us not to Judge, you are right, but he did say we would know them by their fruits, we are called to align ourselves only with people who bear fruit unto the gospel.

Curt:  That is exactly what I am saying about supporting our Government.

Jacob: What?  That our government bears fruit unto the gospel Curt?? 

Curt:  Yes.

Jacob: Oh my God!  I can’t believe what I am hearing!  You think this Government bears fruit unto the gospel??

Curt: I do!  We are freeing a whole country from a hideous dictator, who has killed millions of his own people!  Are you saying that is not of God?

Jacob: What?  You mean, the 4th version of the reasons why we went into Iraq??  Curt, where have you been, man?  Without finding Osama Bin Laden, America picked up shop before the job they set out to do was done, and basically high-tailed it into Iraq, leaving about 12 thousand soldiers to finish the paramount task of the war on terror, which was catching him, and ran off to secure a land that just happens to have the 2nd largest reserve of oil under it!  How blind could a person be, not to see the opportunistic nature of that occupation??

Curt: Hold on just a minute Jacob!  I am not going to stand here and listen to you, who hasn’t been in church for YEARS tell me that this president is not a true Christian!

Jacob: It is interesting that you would say that Curt, since I have not yet mentioned one single word about him or his faith.  If you don’t mind my saying so, it sounds like you have questions of your own lingering in your heart.  I will not at any time make a judgment about things between him and God, but two things I will not do, unlike you, I will not ignore the fruits that he bears, and I will not accept leadership or follow leadership that betrays the basic ideals of our faith.  Are you saying that the Disciples or Paul should have silenced themselves, or ceased preaching the Gospel, and rebuking the leadership in Israel because they were not supposed to judge their leaders?  How many times did those men say "You tell me which is better, to obey you, or to obey God".  Clearly Paul did not intend to imply that we esteem our leadership, especially worldly leadership, over the Word of truth or over our esteem of God.

Curt: Oh come on!  This is different than that Jacob!  This is America!  This nation was founded on holy principles!  You have basically said here tonight that the church is wrong in its support of the U.S.A.  Part of the reason that you say that, is because you are out of touch with the church because you have been gone for so long! 

Jacob: The USA is not the kingdom of God Curt!  The Church is not PART of the USA.  It is the citizenship of a much greater country, who’s builder and maker is God.  Where did the idea of aligning the church with the political attitudes of the world come from? Killing? Murder? Pillaging the natural resources of foreign lands? What does the scripture say about the political arena Curt?  It is the dominion of Satan!  He welcomes the church into political activity!  This is HIS backyard, he wants us here! You are falling right into his trap.

Curt: That is ridiculous!  You go farer into the outer limits the more we talk!

Jacob: Curt! Wake up!  In Revelation 11:15 The word says: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.  THAT is when the political arena comes back into the hands of God Curt, and since it is safe to say we are not at the 7th trumpet right now I think you’d agree that this takes place at a later time!

Curt: I just can not believe the things that you are saying!  You are condemning the entire Church, as if you are some holy man, and we are all lost!  Judging the leaders, judging the government.  Where is your patriotism Jacob?? Don't you love your Country?  Where is all this coming from??  Why are you so anti American now??

Jacob:  I am not anti American Curt!  I am ANTI WORLD!  I don't subscribe to the idea that the church is to jump headlong into the political arena, and change the world into its view of an ideal utopia, using the great American Guns and worldly means to bring about spiritual ends!  Again, what does the scripture say? 2 Corinthians 10:12 The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds What happened to prayer vigils, and nationwide fasts by the church to pray against the footholds that the enemy is taking in our world?  What happened to fighting Satan on the ground that we are called to fight him on... in the spirit.

Curt: I really think you need prayer Jacob, you have strayed far from God and are caught in this Bible bashing, legalistic bondage that has stripped you of all that makes being a Christian great, not to mention this incredibly puffed up self righteousness you are expressing now!

Jacob: I have not at any time during this conversation claimed to be a holy man, nor have I put myself on any kind of a pedestal at all.  In fact, all I have done is quote the Word Curt.  I know I haven’t been here for a long time and I make no excuse for that, but for your information, I have continued in the word and prayer all along, my faith has not been abandoned.  How you can make that judgment about me, while crying foul and claiming I am judging the president is beyond me.  We are two Christians discussing things that are very important, and I don’t see where spiritual pride belongs in that conversation.

Curt: I hear a LOT of pride in what you are saying here, not to mention that there certainly is no love in it. And I'm not to sure you can say "we are two Christians discussing things that are very important" When it is UN-Christian to disagree with this war.  The Bible you have been quoting here says that leadership is in place by God's hand, not Satan's.

Jacob: I fully believe that Curt, but that doesn't make the scriptures that say those men are under the influence of the God of this world not true. Would God raise up leaders that lie, and kill, and call them his own?  definitely not.

Curt: Another judgment Jacob. Now you are saying the President is dishonest, and making judgments about his character!  As I said it shows how out of touch you are with the events of the times, The Church, and the Holy spirit of God!  An obvious result of being out of the church for so long!

Jacob:  And what does what you just said tell you Curt?  I have been gone for a long time, and I am out of touch with the Church, you are right, but I obviously am not out of touch with the word because I back the things I am saying here with that word.  You have backed nothing you have said with scripture, only the trendy opinions that are as I said, "in-vogue" in the church right now.  When I left here ten years ago you believed the exact same things I believed!  So what has changed in our beliefs Curt? You have been feeding on the trends of the Church's teachings, and I have fed off of the word of God, how is it that we find ourselves on the opposite ends of this discussion?  And as far as love is concerned Curt, don't say that I don't love you or the other people here in this church.  When I left a long time ago, we both had very active ministries going in this church, neither of us were novices then, never mind now.  It took plenty of Love to approach you here tonight, because I knew it would jeopardize our friendship.  But I know there are some great evils afoot in this new trend of the Church allying itself with a political party, and entering into the world arena to bring about change.

Curt: I could agree with you on that if we were standing in any other country than this one Jacob, but this land is a Christian nation, and God blesses America greatly, there is no denying that!

Jacob: Remember when we were young men, and that guy Ben Harrington had that class on Revelation, and he talked about end times?

Curt: Oh yeah, I remember Ben!  He was an awesome teacher, and what a good man.  You know he teaches at a Christian collage now. I'm sure he would have plenty to say about what you have said here tonight Jacob.

Jacob:  I know I heard that he is a professor.  No surprises there huh?

Curt: No definitely not.

Jacob:  Do you remember the pictures that he drew in our minds, about what the world would be like at the time of the coming of the Lord?

Curt: Yes, I do.  He was so good at drawing pictures with his words, what a great teacher he was!

Jacob: He sure was.  Remember what he used to say about the time of the Antichrist, and all that stuff about the woman riding the beast and all that?

Curt: Yeah, he used to say how a worldly church would take powerful control of a massive and glorious Government, and that was what the Woman riding the beast meant... Hey, wait a minute Jacob, I know what you are driving at!  There is no way that America is that government!  How could you say such a thing??

Jacob: Are you sure about that Curt?  Think about it.  A huge, wealthy, religious, powerful, mighty Government, the most powerful Government that has ever existed in the world.  The other countries of the world made rich by trading their goods there, and they are pulled into her harlotries and iniquities.  All the world marveling and copying its styles.  It goes about doing its own will, no one able to stand against it or resist it?

Curt: Look, there is no way America is that country Jacob.  That country will be over there, a newly organized Europe or something like that.  The Antichrist will be a Jewish man.

Jacob: What makes you think he is a Jew Curt?

Curt: Well everything the Devil does is a mockery of Christ Jacob, he will have to be a Jew, so that he can fool the Jews into believing he is the messiah.

Jacob: Again, you are saying something that doesn't agree with scripture Curt, the word doesn't say he is a Jew.  In fact, it indicates exactly the opposite, he is a Gentile. Daniel chapters 7-8 give a picture of the events at that time, and all of your so called prominent leaders agree, that the prophetic, apocalyptic Babylon is the final manifestation, and re establishment of the Roman Empire.  Even the church today admits that America is made up almost entirely of the ancestors of the fallen Roman empire.  If you remember correctly, Ben Harrington used to say that as well.

Curt: There is simply NO WAY that America is that kingdom.  That kingdom is not a kingdom founded on Christianity Jacob.  In Fact, the Bible doesn't really mention America at all playing a role in the end times events.  We have to conclude that it is gone at that point in time.

Jacob: And why not? How can you say with certainty that America is not that kingdom? In fact, that kingdom IS founded on religion Curt, and proclaims itself a "holy nation".  What makes you think that the Bible doesn't mention America Curt?  And what makes you say that America will be gone at that point? Why is it always, oh no, not America, anyone but us!

Curt: Because the kingdom that IS that kingdom needs to rise to power and take over the world.  That will all happen in the middle east.  The European union countries, or the united nations.

Jacob: Curt the Bible says that that country's influence will be world wide, meaning all over the world, not just the middle east.  Its not like the Lord didn't know that men would colonize this side of the world.  And how do you think another nation will ever rise to power in this world?  Every time a nation begins to develop the technology to become a superpower, America demonizes it in the world, and stops it from proceeding with those programs. America is the only remaining superpower, and there can arise no other Curt.  Why can't you see the obvious similarities between this country, and what the scripture describes as that great kingdom to be? Powerful, rich, influential, willful, corrupt, controlling all the governments of the world? Do you realize that if all the militaries of the world joined together as one unit, they would still be utterly destroyed by the American military?

Curt: There is no way America is Babylon Jacob, I don't believe that.  I WON'T believe that!  There is NO WAY that country is going to be a good God fearing country like this one.

Jacob:  Saying that you WON'T believe that is a very dangerous thing to say Curt.  Remember what Satan said to Jesus when he tempted him? Mathew 4:9 "All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me" The governments and rulers of this world are under the influence of the Devil at this time Curt.

Curt: Jacob, Satan was a liar, that's all he can do is lie.  He was lying to Jesus!

Jacob: Curt you can't lie to God, even Satan won't try that.  It would not have been a real temptation if it was not a valid offer.  Jesus knew the truth.  The devil didn't lie to him on the other two promises either, because Jesus had to overcome REAL temptations.

Curt: You are probably right about that Jacob, and I admit your knowledge of the Scripture has really increased.  But the things you are saying about this country are simply not true, and I think we will see in the coming years that I am right.

Jacob: Let me ask you this question; If the bible is the Word of God as it says it is, in its description of world events and prophecies, how could it possibly miss a country like this Curt?  It is the biggest nation, the most wealthy, the most powerful, religious nation that has ever existed in the history of the world.  There is in fact no way that the scripture misses the existence of America, simply no way.

Curt: Jacob...

Jacob:  And what about the things that America is really doing right now Curt?  Seeking revenge?  Stealing the 2nd largest oil reserve on the planet from the country that owns that land?  Falsely accusing that countries leaders of having weapons it doesn't have?  Would "God's country" bear false witness against the other rulers of the world, in order to bring about God's will?  Would God raise up leaders that are hypocrites, and liars and call them his own??

Curt: Now see?  There you go again Curt!  You are judging our leaders. The war in Iraq is a war against terrorism and it is one that America HAS to fight! And here you are calling them hypocrites!

Jacob: Curt, the war in Iraq has nothing to do with terrorism other than that every terrorist in the world is going over to Iraq, to kill the 130 thousand Americans that our government put there.  Iraqi citizens have never been terrorists Curt.  They are people that have a bunch of kids, a car and a job.  They lived life not all that different than ours before 1991.  The terrorists of the world come from places like Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Afghanistan, Libya.  Very few terrorists in the world come from Iraq.  I'm not saying none at all, and I'm not saying Saddam was a good man, he certainly wasn't. But what about all the lies that were told about why we went in there, how can one NOT say we are hypocrites?

Curt: Jacob, I don't care what the reason was that they went into Iraq! Saddam Hussein is a brutal dictator, and it is a good thing.

Jacob: Yes, and the 3 trillion in oil reserve is a coincidental benefit for our noble cause right Curt?  Why didn't we have a problem with his "brutal dictatorship" when we supported him in the Iran/Iraq war?  America doesn't care one bit who is a brutal dictator, all they care about is Oil, and that the leaders of the other countries stand aside and let America suck the world dry of its resources, while expanding their corporations.  Saddam Hussein didn't become a "brutal Dictator" in our eyes until he decided to trade on the Euro Curt, THAT is the reason he needed to go. 

Curt: Well you have obviously become a total hater of America Curt, and I know that God is not pleased with that.  I for one will not be able to fellowship with you any longer, and I would appreciate it if you didn't attend this Bible study any longer either.  This Church stands strong behind America, and does not associate with detractors who claim that America is evil.  I will talk to the Pastor about your membership, and I'm sure that he will agree with me that you are not going to be welcome here any longer.

Jacob: I'm sorry you feel that way Curt, and if that is the decision that the Pastor makes, I will abide by it.  That would be a foretold event as well, such as when Jesus said in Luke 6: 22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. and in John 16:2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service. I don't find the things you are now saying one bit surprising Curt.

Curt: I don't know what else to say to you Jacob.

Jacob: Alright Curt, let's end this conversation here, since there is obviously no way, even with the scripture that I can prove the truth to you, but let me ask you one more question..

Curt: And what question is that?

Jacob: You have 3 son's of your own, if you think this country is on some kind of a holy mission, I assume you will exercise you're parental influence, and encourage your sons to join the military and join this holy war?

Curt: Yes, I absolutely will!  Because unlike you, I believe in America, and I support our troops.  God has a divine mission for this country to carry out, and I will support that mission to my grave.

Jacob: You mean to your Son's graves. Even though you have not mentioned even ONE scripture here that can support that view at all, nor are you able to.  Even though by encouraging your sons to join the military, and go out into the world and possibly be killed helping America to continue its course of revenge, World domination, and the filthy lucre based nature of their intentions? 

Curt: I don't see anything happening in the world that supports what you are saying, and I am certainly not going to take the word of a man who has not been in the church for many years on the fulfillment of prophetic scripture, and world events.

Jacob: You say you don't see anything happening in the world to support my view, because you refuse to look Curt.  You are turning a blind eye to the atrocities that your government is committing and have no problem with that at all. This is what the Bible defines as "loving darkness".  because you refuse to see the truth.  You have said you see nothing happening in the world to support what I have said here, and you are right, the proof of what is happening is not in the world which is where you and the church are looking for answers at this time, but the proof of what I have said here tonight does exist Curt, it exists in the Word of God, and has now for 2000 years.

Curt: Jacob, I think you should just leave..

Jacob: I will leave Curt, but before I do I will warn you of two things.  #1 you are fulfilling 2 very important scriptures here in this conversation, and if the pastor supports you concerning me, the church will have fulfilled one of them as well.

Curt: And what scriptures are those Jacob?

Jacob: The first one is found in your unwillingness to consider the scriptures I have laid out here tonight, and it is found in 2 Thessalonians 2: 11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:áThat they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. and the other is found in your complete willingness to ignore the vastly unrighteous deeds of this nation, placing your trust in that nation, and turning a blind eye to the truths that are plainly before you each day in the news, found in John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. This is exactly what Jesus meant by that Curt, that the condemnation that will come upon so many will be that they loved to turn a blind eye to evil, and remain in "darkness"

Curt: You know something Jacob....  I don't even know what that means, what you just said!

Jacob: I can see that Curt, and my prayer is that sometime after this conversation is over, God will reveal to you exactly what it does mean.

Curt: Either way Jacob, this conversation is over, and I am sorry, but I can have nothing more to do with you.  I have been a Christian for many many years, and I know the word of God. The things that you have said here are of the devil, and I will not heed them.

 

PARTING COMPANY...

    Turning to leave the room, Jacob feels a great sense of loss and sorrow about the conversation that just took place.  He opens the door and begins to leave, as he does, he looks back at Curt...

Jacob: You know Curt, I think you should consider one thing as you burn with the nationalist pride that has encompassed the church since 9-11, and before you decide to influence your sons to join the American military.

Curt: And what is that Jacob?

Jacob: That if you should influence them to do so, and they join, and are killed in one of America's quests for world domination, there is a VERY real possibility that you would have sacrificed one of your sons to the Beast of Revelation 17.  

    Shaking his head as he watches Jacob leave the room Curt thinks to himself how tragic it is that Jacob has been out of church, and that he can not see the greatness of his country, and the importance of their war on terror.  He prays that God will open his eyes before too long...

    Slowly closing the door and leaving Curt there in silence, Jacob prays to God that Curt will remember the words that were said here tonight, and that God will convict him of the truths that were spoken.  He prays that God will manifest to Curt in undeniable fashion, the evil that is afoot in the world, and that he will do it before long...

 TO BE CONTINUED...

 

In Christ, F.E.Reilly

 

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